POLITICAL PARTY POOPER

WE WON'T BE SAFE WHILE POLITICAL PARTIES ARE LEGAL

Five Questions You Should Ask Every Conservative

Posted by politicalpartypooper on February 20, 2010

It’s hard to believe President Obama’s term is more than one year old, already, or, to put it as one of my conservative acquaintances did, “It’s hard to believe America is still free”.

I often get involved in visiting different liberal and conservative blogs, and commenting.  Being an independent, I find that to be the easiest way to start an argument no matter what I say, especially when I’m in the mood for one.  But lately, one of the conservative blogs I visit has been vicious.  Did you know that recently, according to Conservatives, not only are liberals evil, but independents have won that title, too?  In fact, my “friends” at one blog have gone so far as to say that independents are really only liberals in hiding, too cowardly to come out and admit the truth.  Hmmm.

Across the width and breadth of the internet, from time to time, you’ll come upon a conversation which just screams at you to say something, even if it means that everyone on that blog will shoot you with a rusty spear if they can see you.  Just such a thing happened to me the other day.  One of my favorite conservatives to debate was there, and he was all “you’re just a weath-redistributing LIBERAL!!!” and everything.  So, I responded by telling him that the only people in America who had their hands out was the wealthy, and I also told him, “You better be ready to dig in those pockets deep, boy, because they are about to need another bailout.”

It was at this point that he “reminded” me of all the welfare cases, the unions, the unemployed with their hands out, blah, blah, blah, blah…

So, I curved the debate around to the one place where I knew he could not escape from the truth.  I asked him five questions.  Here they are:

1.  Do you believe that Americans who REALLY want to work ought to be able to find a job that pays a decent living wage?

2.  What do you believe is a decent living wage for a father supporting a wife and two children?  For a single mother whose husband abandoned her? (that’s more like two questions, but who’s counting?)

3.  Why do we see that since 1979, the ratio of executive pay to average American pay has soared from 40:1 to 500:1?  And do you realize that this means if you earn $40,000, an executive earns $20 Million?

4.  In this most recent bear market, when your “stop-losses” on your stocks sold your shares at a huge loss and converted your retirement account to cash, who bought those shares that you sold, and when you finally get back into the market, whose shares will you be buying at a much higher price than what they bought them for?

5.  Where did that money in your 401k go?  It didn’t just disappear, so who has it now?

I asked him those questions yesterday…he has yet to respond.  Really, how can he respond without understanding that unless we do some wealth redistributing, his income will continue to stagnate, and his retirement plan will continuously be raided by bear markets, in which, only the rich have the money available to buy all of those “distressed” stocks, at bargain prices.

Do I believe in wealth redistribution?  You’re damned right I do. How can I not?  I’ve watched it happen for more than thirty years as the wealthiest Americans have, time after time, redistributed my wealth amongst themselves.  Ω

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22 Responses to “Five Questions You Should Ask Every Conservative”

  1. Jonah said

    5. Where did that money in your 401k go? It didn’t just disappear, so who has it now?

    Yes PPP, some of it does disappear. But alot also goes to short selling speculators. Some of them may be traiding at eTrade.

    As to supporting a family, tell us who gets the lion’s share of every
    middle class income in America?

    I have to admit, as a registered Independent, you do tend to lean left.

  2. politicalpartypooper said

    Jonah, you did not answer the questions. Should every American be able to find a decent paying job? What is a decent living wage?

    More questions…is any American executive worth $20 Million dollars when his average employees only earn $40k? This is a fact: Tax cuts for the wealthy do not create jobs, and they do not spur the economy. The Bush tax cuts have been with us for almost a decade, and that decade showed negative job growth, a negative stock market, and negatively growing average wages for Americans, with a loss of over a trillion dollars in tax revenue. You Conservatives bemoan last year’s “stimulus” bill as an utter failure, and it only cost $800 Billion…and saved a handful of jobs. Well, our nation just experimented with a $1 Trillion tax cut for the wealthy, and it caused negative job growth, negative economic impact, and stagnant wages. So, Jonah, that Trillion dollar tax cut, did we get our money’s worth? Don’t ask the wealthy if they got their money’s worth, we know they did, because they didn’t create a single job, and the market tanked twice. Nice stimulus plan.

    And no, short sellers aren’t usually buying whole stock…they buy options for the most part. The actual stock that you would own, and would sell in a stop-loss is usually purchased by the few people who have the money to buy it…the wealthy. Those wealthy are also often known as “market-makers”. Huge trading firms and people like Warren Buffett (who agrees with me on most issues concerning taxation and wealth redistribution) make one move and the entire market moves with them.

    Jonah, the value that was lost in your portfolio was bought up by someone who had the money to do it. Now who do you suppose that was?

    • Jonah said

      PPP, why play games, name the ones that have everyones 401K money.

    • Jonah said

      I notice you competely ignore who took over congress over 3 years ago, you know, when things began going south, after Bush’s years of 4% unemployment, and a DOW that reach 14,000.

    • politicalpartypooper said

      In continuation, Jonah, you can exhort conservative, Republican principals until you are blue in the face, but the numbers do not back you up. Thirty years ago, the gap between executive and average was 40:1. Today it is 500:1. Wealth redistribution most certainly does exist. Only it’s ALL going to the already wealthy. Every statistic proves that, and yet you persist in mumbling Republican talking points. The numbers don’t lie, Jonah. The rich are getting way richer off the sweat of our backs. The tax cuts for the wealthy experiment did not work. The stats bear that out. Republican talking points might sound right, but they are nothing more than hot air, without a single statistic to back them up. How long are you going to break your back for them before you realize that they are stealing your money, and getting you to help them do it?

      • Jonah said

        10 million people became millionaires between 1990 and 2005.

        Do you bemoan those people? It wasn’t due to ‘tax cuts’.

        What ‘republican talking points’ am I bothering you with?

        They are just facts.

      • Jonah said

        You really want to know who’s stealing our money?

        Look at your next paystub.

      • politicalpartypooper said

        Jonah, in 2009, there were only nine million millionaires in all of America, so your stat is false.

      • Jonah said

        Some of them lost value, or moved. My stat is not false.

        I know for a fact that there were less than 5 million millionaires in 1990.

        So a net gain of 4 million millionaires is bad I guess.

      • Jonah said

        I guess I inflated all figures.

        The number of U.S. households with a net worth of $1 million or more, not including first homes, fell by 2.5 million to 6.7 million in 2008, according to the Spectrum Group report, as reported by Reuters.

        It has doubled since 1990.

        I remember reading about it.

      • Jonah said

        If you include homes, the number was considerable higher, until the mortgage crisis ( damn those republicans! )

      • politicalpartypooper said

        Jonah, I don’t think an average American ever believes he will become a millionaire. I don’t even think he is worried about that. I think the big issue is that wages are stagnant at best for average Americans. People feel like they are working harder and longer, and getting paid way less for it. Stats prove that to be true. It’s not about becoming a millionaire…it’s about being fairly rewarded for hard work. If you are of conservative principals, how can you support the fact that hard working Americans are being screwed? Isn’t the old Conservative idiom “an honest days pay for an honest days work”? Or is that just a bunch of hooey?

        And every time we come out of a recession, wages go down, and benefits go down. The people who pay the price for a recession are at the bottom of the food chain. Unless you want all of America to become a welfare state, you better start supporting higher wages for the average American…and Jonah, that means the rich people are going to hate you.

      • Jonah said

        Wait ! read this

        There is a wide disparity in the estimates of the number of millionaires residing currently in the United States.

        A quarterly report prepared by the Economist Intelligence Unit on behalf of Barclays Wealth in 2007 estimated that there were 16,600,000 dollar millionaires in the USA.(page 7)

      • Jonah said

        Sopporting higher wages? Isn’t that what the union did here and drove businesses out of our area?

        You’re tackling the situation from the wrong end. I just can not understand why you don’t get it.

        Not all industry is lead by ‘rich’ 3% tax cut benefactors…

        Many business go under, or lay people off because they can’t afford their tax obligations. They don’t have CEO’s that make millions, so you don;t hear about them.

      • politicalpartypooper said

        Jonah, I get it just fine. I told you the other day, I have no problem with a business that ACTUALLY CREATES JOBS keeping more of its money. So many of those are small businesses, and the owners of those companies are not millionaires by a vast majority. They do not get breaks like the wealthy do. All of America knows that it is these small businesses (50-100 employees, most of them not millionaires) who create the vast majority of jobs, and yet it is this very class of people that gets less help than the wealthy Americans who create no jobs, but who shift from major corp to major corp, failing at every turn, raiding the corporate coffers for their bonuses, and then huffing indignantly when someone suggest that maybe they ought to pay some that bonus back to the shareholders, who deserve profit just as much as they do.

        Jonah…500:1. If the avg American wage is $30k, the average exec wage is $15 million. That is just absurd, and completely indefensible. It is a plutocratic state for which the Republicans never stop aiming to grow. I don’t hear Republicans saying, “Goddammit! We have to get American wages higher!” Instead, I hear them say, “Government needs to get out of our way, and let us do what we want”…which turns into a 500:1 ratio.

        Repubs do not want limits set on exec pay, but they do not ever defend the right of the average shareholder to demand that execs are limited in pay…and it is those shareholders who OWN the fucking company!

  3. Jonah said

    5. Where did that money in your 401k go? It didn’t just disappear, so who has it now?

    Yes, some of it did just disappear: To exact pure parity, it would
    require just as many short positions as there are long positions.
    This just isn’t the case. In fact you can’t short Mutual funds,
    where many 401K’s reside. If your 401K was in aggressive, high
    risk security indexes, they are influenced by the underlying stocks.

    When the value of your home declined, where did that money go PPP?
    It didn’t just disappear did it? Who has it now?
    ( local governments been re-assessing yet? )

  4. Jonah said

    BTW “stop-losses” are meant to prevent huge losses.

  5. Jonah said

    I’m just begining to believe your personal situation is clouding your analysis.

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